Church Leadership Podcast
Church Leadership Podcast
Episode 16 - Joël Malm

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Show Notes

On this week’s episode, Mark and Andy were recently in North Carolina at a pastor’s retreat and caught up with Joël Malm, an author, a pastor, and an adventure leader from San Antonio, TX. 

You can learn more about Joel at

Joël has written several books, including Vision Map and the book we discuss on today’s episode, Fully You.


  • “I also lead leadership conferences, but they’re unique. So, we lead them in the outdoors. We started by taking these authors who speak to arenas filled with 15,000, and we would have them speak to a group of 15. They way I would get  them to do it, convince them to speak to 15 rather than 15,000, I’d say ‘Let me take you on the adventure of a lifetime.’ So, we would go climb Mt. Kilimanjaro, or hike the Inca trial to Machu Picchu, or raft the Grand Canyon.”
  • “Here’s what I’ve learned… It’s amazing what the human body can do when there’s no other option.”
  • “We all are born with three instinctive needs. We’ve all got a need for security. We’ve all got a need for connection, or relationship with others. And we’ve all got a need for empowerment.”
  • “So, when you don’t get the security or safety you need, the shame you feel is abandonment… When you don’t get the connection you need, the shame you feel is in the area of rejection. When you don’t get empowerment, the shame you feel is humiliation. And that is where our greatest fear comes in.”
  • “Anger is always a secondary emotion that points to a threat to one of our three basic needs.”

  • “I don’t believe you can lose your salvation, but sometimes I wonder when I’m in traffic – because it’s a threat to my empowerment.”
  • “That’s what happens to most of us… We settle short of what God’s glory is for us. It’s all because we are afraid, that maybe what if God isn’t enough? What if Jesus isn’t enough? And I know this over here, it’ll fulfill what I need right now. It will ultimately leave me empty…”
  • “The Holy Spirit will guide you, but anger is your biggest consultant.”

  • “So, when you consult the anger, you either go, ‘Am I abdicating a responsibility that I have to address something that’s happening, or is it time just to suck it up buttercup?’”
  • “You’ve got to be willing to confront the stuff that you just keep thinking, ‘If I ignore it long enough, it will go away….’ ‘It won’t! It’s just gonna get bigger and bigger.’”